Notes from the group

Jason: we have agency, but if the agency can bring the hackers inside the tent (the hacking contest) then is that really autonomous agency?
Kristin J. - science, we build on what came before us. But if you can't open teh hood of the car, you can't improve the car and get your innovations out into society. If we aren't encouraged to explore, if we can't do things in unexpected ways, we wont' move forward.
Clay - but maybe pushback is what gets people involved. DVD hackers have released something new. People I know are into tinkering with it now, when before they didn't really care. They are now evalengelizing this... a whole culture has come out of it.
Barb - yeah, we have counterculture things that stem from this stuff. We have control/shtting it down and then we have the other stream: opening it up/counter culture. Its like a challenge for some invidivuals to mess with that
John: User expesctations - they might not be frustrated. But it might be tracked- like the new iTunes music. And people won't be happy with that.
Barb: that's not DRM free to me. That is another form of control
Greg D: I'll play devils advocate for a minute. I kept hearing the industry/market voice with the argument of 'we have, through the availability of digital content, we have expanded the amount of ideas available for critique and consumption... and this is one of the concessions you have to make to make this possible.' I don't feel opressed yet, I understand the arguments - but at this moment in history... a lot of this stuff seems to be about what will happen in the future. So I'd like to know if you feel this yet?
Clay: not yet. I know there are a lot of sources for things beyond the standard venues. While we have the culture here of abiding by copyright law, a lot of the rest of the world does not. I think they will have to find a middle ground _ like lower prices.
Jason: I also feel there are lots of other options - I don't feel my agency is thwarted.
Barb: Plus, artists are putting stuff up for free now. In publishing there has been a big resistance to ebooks and there is an irrational fear of stealing.
Jason: Yeah, its like hyperbole and rhetoric from the V chapter. It obscures a real conversation about what counts as fair use and what really needs protecting.
Clay: What US corporations forget is that they can exert control in the US but not necessarily elsewhere. Laws are different elsewhere. Intl. treaties aren't necessarily enforcable. Is the UN Security Council going to do anything about this?
Greg: